THE 1992 DEBATES : Excerpts: 3 Candidates Address Character, Change, Problems

\o7 ST. LOUIS\f7 —  Following are excerpts of Sunday night’s presidential debate in St. Louis:

The Big Difference

Ross Perot: “I think the principle issue that separates me is that 5 1/2 million people came together on their own and put me on the ballot. I was not put on the ballot by either of the two parties.

“I was not put on the ballot by any PAC money, by any foreign lobbyist money, by any special interest money. This is a movement that came from the people. This is the way the framers of the Constitution intended our government to be, a government that comes from the people.”

Bill Clinton: “The most important distinction in this campaign is that I represent real hope for change, a departure from trickle-down economics, a departure from tax-and-spend economics, to invest in growth.

“But before I can do that, I must challenge the American people to change, and they must decide.

“Tonight I have to say to the President: Mr. Bush, for 12 years you’ve had it your way. You’ve had your chance, and it didn’t work. It’s time to change. I want to bring that change to the American people. But we must all decide first we have the courage to change for hope and a better tomorrow.”

President Bush: “I think one thing that distinguishes is experience. I think we’ve dramatically changed the world. I’ll talk about that a little bit later, but the changes are mind-boggling for world peace.

“Kids go to bed at night without the same fear of nuclear war. And change for change’s sake isn’t enough. We saw that message in the late ‘70s when we heard a lot about change. And what happened? That misery index went right through the roof. But my economic program is the kind of change we want.

“And the way we’re going to get it done is we’re going to have a brand new Congress. A lot of them are thrown out because of all the scandals. I’ll sit down with them, Democrats and Republicans alike, and work for my agenda for American renewal, which represents real change.”

Issues of Character

Question: “Are there important issues of character separating you from these other two men?”

Bush: “I think the American people should be the judge of that. I think character is a very important question.

“I said something the other day where I was accused of being like Joe McCarthy because I questioned--I put it this way; I think it’s wrong to demonstrate against your own country or organize demonstrations against your own country in foreign soil. I just think it’s wrong.

“I--well, maybe they say, ‘Well, it was a youthful indiscretion.’ I was 19 or 20, flying off an aircraft carrier, and that shaped me to be commander in chief of the armed forces and I’m sorry, but demonstrating--it’s not a question of patriotism. It’s a question of character and judgment. . . . But he has made, not admitted, a mistake, and I just find it impossible to understand how an American can demonstrate against his own country in a foreign land--organizing demonstrations against it when young men are held prisoner in Hanoi or kids out of the ghetto were drafted.

“Some say, ‘Well, you’re a little old-fashioned.’ Maybe I am, but I just don’t think that’s right.

“Now, whether it’s character of judgment--whatever it is--I have a big difference here on this issue and so we’ll just have to see how it plays out.”

Perot: “I think the American people will make their own decisions on character and at a time when we have work to do and we need action, I think they need to clearly understand the backgrounds of each person. I think the press can play a huge role in making sure that the backgrounds are clearly presented in an objective way. Then, make a decision.

“Certainly anyone in the White House should have the character to be there. But I think it’s very important to measure when and where things occurred. Did they occur when you were a young person, in your formative years? Or did they occur while you were a senior official in the federal government?

“When you’re a senior official in the federal government, spending billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money, and you’re a mature individual, and you make a mistake; then that was on our ticket. If you make it as a young man, time passes.”

Clinton: “You (Bush) have questioned my patriotism. You even brought some right-wing congressmen into the White House to plot how to attack me for going to Russia in 1969-1970, when over 50,000 other Americans did.

“Now, I honor your service in World War II, I honor Mr. Perot’s service in uniform and the service of every man and woman who ever served, including Adm. Crowe, who was your chairman of the joint chiefs and who’s supporting me.

“But when Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking people’s patriotism he was wrong. He was wrong. And a senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy, you were wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war, but I loved my country and we need a President who will bring this country together, not divide it.”

The Value of Experience

Clinton: “I believe experience counts, but it’s not everything. Values, judgment and the record that I have amassed in my state also should count for something.

“I’ve worked hard to create good jobs and to educate people. My state now ranks first in the country in job growth this year, fourth in income growth, fourth in the reduction of poverty, third in overall economic performance, according to a major news magazine. That’s because we believe in investing in education and in jobs. And we have to change in this country. . . .

“Experience is important, yes. I’ve gotten a lot of good experience in dealing with ordinary people over the last year and month. I’ve touched more people’s lives and seen more heartbreak and hope, more pain and more promise, than anybody else who’s run for President this year. I think the American people deserve better than they’re getting. . . .”

Bush: “(Clinton) thinks, I think he said, that the country is coming apart at the seams. Now, I know that the only way he can win is to make everybody believe the economy’s worse than it is.

“But this country is not coming apart at the seams, for heaven’s sakes. We’re the United States of America. In spite of the economic problems, we’re the most respected economy around the world. Many would trade for it. We’ve been caught up in a global slowdown.

“We can do much, much better, but we ought not try to convince the American people that America is a country that’s coming apart at the seams.”

Perot: “I don’t have any experience in running up a $4-trillion debt. I don’t have any experience in gridlock government where nobody takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody else.

“I don’t have any experience in creating the worst public school system in the industrialized world, the most violent, crime-ridden society in the industrialized world, but I do have a lot of experience in getting things done.

“So, if we’re at a point in history where we want to stop talking about it and do it, I’ve got a lot of experience in figuring out how to solve problems, making the solutions work, and then moving on to the next one. I’ve got a lot of experience in not taking 10 years to solve a 10-minute problem. So, if it’s time for action, I think I have experience that counts. If there’s more time for gridlock and talk and finger-pointing, I’m the wrong man.”

Putting People Back to Work

Question: “How would you specifically use the powers of the presidency to get more people back into good jobs immediately?”

Perot: “Step one, you want to put America back to work, clean up the small-business problem. Have one task force at work on that. The second, you’ve got your big companies that are in trouble, including the defense industries. Have another one on that. Have a third task force on new industries of the future to make sure we nail those for our country and they don’t wind up in Europe and Asia.

“Our international competitors that are cleaning our plate have an intelligent relationship between government and business and a supportive relationship.”

Clinton: “This country desperately needs a jobs program, and my first priority would be to pass a jobs program, to introduce it on the first day I was inaugurated. . . .

“I live in a state where the manufacturing job growth has far outpaced the nation in the last few years, where we have created more private-sector jobs, since Mr. Bush has been President, than have been created in the entire rest of the country, where Mr. Bush’s labor secretary said the job growth has been enormous. We’ve done it in Arkansas. Give me a chance to create these kind of jobs in America. We can do it. I know we can.”

Bush: “We’ve got the plan announced for what we can do for small business. I’ve already put forward things that will get this country working fast, some of which have been echoed here tonight, investment tax allowance, capital gains reduction, more on research and development, a tax credit for first-time home buyers.

“What I’m going to do is say to Jim Baker when this campaign is over: ‘All right, let’s sit down now. You do in domestic affairs what you’ve done in foreign affairs. Be the kind of the economic coordinator of all the domestic side of the house, and that includes all the economic side, all the training side, and bring this program together.’ ”

Dealing With China

Question: “Gov. Clinton, you’ve accused the President of coddling tyrants, including those in Beijing. As President, how would you exert U.S. power to influence affairs in China?”

Clinton: “I think our relationships with China are important, and I don’t think we want to isolate China. But I think it is a mistake for us to do what this Administration did when all those kids went out there carrying the Statue of Liberty in Tian An Men Square. Mr. Bush sent two people in secret to toast the Chinese leaders and basically tell them not to worry about it.

“They rewarded him by opening negotiations with Iran to transfer nuclear technology. That was their response to that sort of action. Now that voices in the Congress and throughout the country have insisted that we do something about China, look what has happened.

“China has finally agreed to stop sending us products made with prison labor, not because we coddled them, but because the Administration was pushed into doing something about it. And recently the Chinese have announced that they’re going to lower some barriers to our products, which they ought to do, since they have a $15-billion trade surplus with the United States under Mr. Bush, the second-biggest surplus of all, second to Japan. So I would be firm.

“I would say: ‘If you want to continue Most Favored Nation status through your government-owned industries as well as your private ones, observe human rights in the future. Open your society.’ ”

Bush: “Well, the Administration was the first major country to stand up against the abuse in Tian An Men Square. We are the ones that worked out the prison labor deal.

“We are the ones that have lowered the barrier to products by (U.S. Trade Representative) Carla (Anderson) Hills’ negotiation. I am the one that said: ‘Let’s keep the M.F.N.’ because you see China moving towards a free-market economy. To do what the Congress and Gov. Clinton are suggesting, you would isolate and ruin Hong Kong.

“They are making some progress; not enough for us. We were the first ones to put sanctions on. We still have them on some things. . . .

“But you isolate China and turn them inward, and then we’ve made a tremendous mistake. And I’m not going to do it, and I’ve had to fight a lot of people that were saying ‘human rights.’ And we are the ones that put the sanctions on and stood for it. And he can insult (National Security Adviser) Gen. (Brent) Scowcroft if he wants to. They didn’t go over to coddle. He went over to say they must make the very changes they’re making now.”

Perot: “China’s a huge country, broken into many provinces. It has some very elderly leaders that will not be around too much longer. Capitalism is growing and thriving across big portions of China.

“Asia will be our largest trading partner in the future. It will be a growing and a closer relationship. We have a delicate, tight-wire walk that we must go through at the present time to make sure that we do not cozy up to tyrants, to make sure that they don’t get the impression that they can suppress their people. But time is our friend there because their leaders will change in not too many years, worst-case, and their country is making great progress.”

Fighting the Drug War

Question: “Americans are increasingly alarmed about drug-related crimes in cities and suburbs, and (the Bush) Administration was not the first to have grappled with this. And, are you (Bush) at all of a mind that maybe it ought to go to another level, if not to what’s advocated by William F. Buckley Jr., and Milt Freedman, legalization, somewhere between there and where we are now?”

Bush: “I don’t believe legalizing narcotics is the answer. I just don’t believe that’s the answer. I do believe that there’s some fairly good news out there. The use of cocaine, for example, by teen-agers is dramatically down, but we’ve got to keep fighting on this war against drugs. . . .”

Perot: “Any time you think you want to legalize drugs, go to a neonatal unit, if you can get in. They are between 100 and 200% capacity up and down the East Coast. And the reason is crack babies being born. Babies in the hospital 42 days. Typical costs to you and me is $125,000. . . .

“Just look at those little children. And if anybody can even think about legalizing drugs they’ve lost me.

“Now, again, if I get up there, if you send me, we’re going to have some blunt talks about this and we’re really going to get down in the trenches and say: ‘Is this one you want to talk about or fix?’ Because talk won’t do it, folks.

Clinton: “Like Mr. Perot, I have held crack babies in my arms. But I know more about this, I think, than anybody else up here because I have a brother who’s a recovering drug addict. I’m very proud of him.

“But I can tell you this: If drugs were legal I don’t think he’d be alive today. I am adamantly opposed to legalizing drugs. . . . He is alive today because of the criminal justice system.

“What should we do? First, we ought to prevent more of this on the street. Thirty years ago, there were three policemen for every crime. Now there are three crimes for every policemen. We need 100,000 more police in the street. I have a plan for that.

“Secondly, we ought to have treatment on demand. Thirdly, we ought to have boot camps for first-time, nonviolent offenders so they can get discipline and treatment and education and get reconnected to the community before they’re severed and sent to prison where they can learn how to be first-class criminals.”

The AIDS Crisis

Question: “Mr. President, yesterday tens of thousands of people paraded past the White House to demonstrate their concern about the disease AIDS. A celebrated member of your commission, Magic Johnson, quit, saying that there was too much inaction. Where is this widespread feeling coming from that your Administration is not doing enough about AIDS?”

Bush: “We have increased funding for AIDS. We’ve doubled it--on research and on every other aspect of it. My request for this year was $4.9 billion for AIDS--10 times as much for AIDS victims as per cancer victim. I think that we’re showing the proper compassion and concern.

“So I can’t tell you where it’s coming from, but I am very much concerned about AIDS, and I believe that we’ve got the best researchers in the world out there at (the National Institutes of Health) working on the problem. . . .

“And the other thing is part of AIDS--it’s one of the few diseases where behavior matters. And I once called on somebody: “Well, change your behavior if the behavior you’re using prone to cause AIDS, change the behavior.” The next thing I know one of these ACT UP groups is out saying: ‘Bush ought to change his behavior.’ You can’t talk about it rationally. The extremes are hurting the AIDS cause. . . .”

Perot: “I think one thing, if I were sent to do the job, I would sit down with the FDA and look exactly where we are. Then I would really focus on, ‘let’s get these things out.’ If you’re going to die, you don’t have to go through this 10-year cycle that FDA goes through on new drugs. . . .”

Clinton: “Over 150,000 Americans have died of AIDS. Well over a million and a quarter of Americans are HIV positive. We need to put one person in charge of the battle against AIDS to cut across all the agencies that deal with it. We need to accelerate the drug approval process.

Excerpts From Round One

Here are some of the notable statements from Sunday’s presidential debate, the first of three: ROSS PEROT, on his lack of experience in comparison to the other candidates: “Well, they’ve got a point. I don’t have any experience in running up a $4-trillion debt. I don’t have any experience in gridlock government where nobody takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody else. I don’t have any experience in creating the worst public school system in the industrialized world, the most violent, crime-ridden society in the industrialized world, but I do have a lot of experience in getting things done.” BILL CLINTON, in response to Bush’s questioning of his 1969-70 visit to Moscow and his anti-Vietnam War activities: “When Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking people’s patriotism, he was wrong. . . . And a senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy; you were wrong to attack my patriotism.” PRESIDENT BUSH, reacting to Clinton’s statements on the state of the nation’s economy: “This country is not coming apart at the seams, for heaven’s sakes. We’re the United States of America. In spite of the economic problems, we’re the most respected economy around the world. Many would trade for it.”